Comments on: Moral Responsibility is not Anti-Americanism

By: fstaheli

fstaheli — Sat, 24 May 2008 01:23:52 +0000

In light of this topic, I’ve found it ironic that several conservatives–including many with whom I usually otherwise agree–claim that because Barack Obama would have discussions with Iran, North Korea, and Venezuela that he is now a terrorist sympathizer.

I particularly appreciate your reminding us that

From the outset, the leaders of our nation saw our nation as an example which would hopefully inspire enlightened change throughout the world.

Sadly, we have gone far astray in this regard. For over 100 years, while allegedly promoting liberty throughout the world, the United States (through its domination rather than example) has either promoted enslavement to dictators or the myopic economic interests of its large corporate conglomerates.

By: Professor Zero

Professor Zero — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:15:05 +0000

Great post.

By: Aaron Orgill

Aaron Orgill — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:21:28 +0000

Sorry, my son sitting with me clicked before I was done. At any rate, McCain also has a record of refusing to tell people what they want to hear. And ultimately, you have to take his actions in Vietnam seriously. He refused an easy way out of a hellish prison camp. I don’t think many people could do the same. And if Obama doesn’t put me at ease regarding his approach to business (tax the hell out of them because they don’t “need” the money, McCain will get my vote).

By: Aaron Orgill

Aaron Orgill — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:17:16 +0000

I don’t really want to get into a war about McCain. He really hasn’t been my favorite politician, and you’re right that some of his favorite fights have been opportunistic.

By: John Williams

John Williams — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:51:48 +0000

andrewsmiracledrug and Aaron Orgill – I HAD the same opinions about McCain until the recent months when he has caved on several of his “principals” in pursuit of his own power play. He has recently voted in support of Bush’s policies regarding torture, in direct contravention of his past anti-torture positions. Not long ago he specifically supported making the Army Field Manual definitions and rules regarding torture the standard for all branches and agencies, but when that same exact bill came up for a vote in the Senate, he voted AGAINST it. On this and several other issues (now in support of Bush’s tax cuts for the rich that he voted and spoke against when they were passed in the Senate, etc) he is foresaking his “principals” to gain support from the less-principaled Repub’s. Seems like they aren’t really principals at all – just words he likes to use when it is convenient. Not very “true statesmanlike” (made up word!).

By: Dave Redden

Dave Redden — Sun, 02 Mar 2008 03:05:28 +0000

Thanks for the great post! I follow foreign police pretty closely because it seems like when you want to gauge how your government feels about people you look to how they treat the people in other countries. Let’s hope for better things ahead!

By: green mormon architect

green mormon architect — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:05:51 +0000

Best part of the post for me:
“I am confident that we will be far more successful in curbing such hatred and violence by reforming our own actions than by force or retaliation.”

Amen! All we are doing right now is spending hundreds of billions creating new enemies and rekindling old ones.

The environmental movement is a good example of the responsibility you are talking about. There is no leader of this group. It is made up of thousands of non-profits and millions of individuals each trying to do what is right and making a difference.

By: Aaron Orgill

Aaron Orgill — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:45:22 +0000

Andrewsmiracledrug, actually I was against the war from the very first day. When I speak of our responsibility to stamp out evil, I’m speaking about us as individuals and members of the Church. Obviously America can’t rid the world of all its dictators. That was a wonderful point about McCain. He will probably get blown out in the general election, since many in his own party refuse to support him, but the man stands up for what he believes without fail, and there are far too few such statesmen willing to do what’s right without regard to the consequences.

By: andrewsmiracledrug

andrewsmiracledrug — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 04:39:45 +0000

While I have no intentions of voting for John McCain in the presidential election, I wil always consider him a true statesman.

A couple of years ago when the coercive interrogation/torture debate raged, some conservative pundits and legislators continually pointed out to the monstrous acts of our opponents – “These people are beheading Americans!” “They killed 3,000 Americans on 9/11!” Accurate statements, but justification for our own acts of torture?

Much like the Chomsky statement you site, Derek, John McCain had the courage to say, “This isn’t about who they are; it’s about who we are.”

This is, for me at least, the fundamental reason I’ve opposed the doctrine of “pre-emptive” war and torture, and many other Bush policies/doctrines.

America, I believe, should represent our beliefs in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, in deed as well as word.

Aaron’s point is salient to mine, though I think we might disagree about the lengths that we should go to to stamp out evil (I for instance, opposed the Iraq War, not because Sadaam wasn’t brutal and a serial, mass-murderer, but because I didn’t believe our justifications went far enough for an unprovoked war, nor did I think it would help our cause in fighting terrorism on a larger scale).

The debate that I wish we were having was not about whether water-boarding is legal or is or isn’t torture, but rather, how far should the United States go in promoting liberty and life, and stamping out evil.

The core values are ones that i think all Americans can agree on.

Sorry for the ramble-y comment. Thanks for the thoughtful, thought-provoking post.

By: Aaron Orgill

Aaron Orgill — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:48:09 +0000

You show some great insights. I wouldn’t go so far to say, “so what,” however. It is our responsibility to stamp out evil in the world wherever we find it; I don’t know that I feel more of a responsibility to point out my own country’s wrongdoings than others. I have said many times in conversations with friends that most of us in this country have no business complaining about anything. Our problems are often not problems at all. We don’t have enough money to go out for a night on the town after paying the mortgage on our 2,000-square-foot house. We treat that like a disaster when so many are living in cramped and filthy conditions and lack the basic necessities. We complain when one of our kids has a disability and is struggling in school, while across the ocean a child with similar problems has no resources nor understanding from those around him, and may be in for a lifetime of mistreatment and marginalization. And things like child soldiers and civilians losing limbs in mine fields going about their daily work shocks our sensibilities, and it seems to me that perhaps that is why Americans see things in the way you described: because we have it so good. We have the most affluence and the best form of government ever devised, so it seems dramatic when people, liberal or conservative, are overly harsh about what’s wrong. I will say that I find myself irritated when that kind of talk goes on for too long. And brother, are you ever right that the conservative side does the same annoying woe-is-America speech on moral issues all the time, and it’s just as obnoxious. I feel very comfortable in my own moderate, libertarian skin, and without arrogance I feel I can say I’m one of few who are really bothering to listen to both sides.