Comments for A Liberal Mormon http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com Liberal politics and social commentary from a distinctly LDS perspective Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:18:39 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 Comment on Caring for the Poor and the Needy to be Added to the LDS “Three-Fold Mission” by Dale http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/caring-for-the-poor-and-the-needy-to-be-added-to-the-lds-three-fold-mission/#comment-8458 Dale Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:18:39 +0000 http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/?p=995#comment-8458 For me this is nothing new. (I span 50 years of membership). This is taught in the Bible, Book of Mormon and everywhere in the Church. It is also taught in many other faiths. I was raised by parents who helped others always. Sometimes in person, sometimes anonymously. ALWAYS without fan fair. They did not just donate to Boy Scouts - they helped out. They did not give the begger money - they took him to dinner. They gave money for clothes - then delivered them to Mexico. They knew of a baby - found adoptive parents. They were/are doers - not just talkers. They judge themselves - not others! Some day I hope to quietly measure up. I have tried to raise my kids the same way. We all need to step up to the plate, but not because someone or the Church has told us to. But, because it is the right thing to do. What I do today is important because I am paying a day of my life or it. What I accomplish, must worthwhile because the price is high. -unknown I am better at doing than writing, forgive my lack of style and take it all for what it is worth. My Rant. For me this is nothing new. (I span 50 years of membership).
This is taught in the Bible, Book of Mormon and everywhere in the Church. It is also taught in many other faiths.

I was raised by parents who helped others always.
Sometimes in person,
sometimes anonymously.
ALWAYS without fan fair.

They did not just donate to Boy Scouts – they helped out.
They did not give the begger money – they took him to dinner.
They gave money for clothes – then delivered them to Mexico.
They knew of a baby – found adoptive parents.
They were/are doers – not just talkers.

They judge themselves – not others!

Some day I hope to quietly measure up.

I have tried to raise my kids the same way.
We all need to step up to the plate, but not because someone or the Church has told us to. But, because it is the right thing to do.

What I do today is important because
I am paying a day of my life or it.
What I accomplish, must worthwhile
because the price is high.
-unknown

I am better at doing than writing, forgive my lack of style and take it all for what it is worth. My Rant.

]]> Comment on Caring for the Poor and the Needy to be Added to the LDS “Three-Fold Mission” by Yorgus http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/caring-for-the-poor-and-the-needy-to-be-added-to-the-lds-three-fold-mission/#comment-8457 Yorgus Mon, 14 Dec 2009 01:14:17 +0000 http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/?p=995#comment-8457 About time. Too many members of the church think that the only worthy charity is the church itself. I have friends and acquaintances who give me a funny look if I mention donating to the Salvation Army, Doctors without Borders, Red Cross, NPR/PBS or other charities. As far as they are concerned a tithing slip 12 or 24 times a year, and an annual donation to the Boy Scouts, demonstrates their charitable spirit. They give themselves an extra pat on the back if they add a donation for Church Humanitarian Services. You can't take it with you. About time. Too many members of the church think that the only worthy charity is the church itself. I have friends and acquaintances who give me a funny look if I mention donating to the Salvation Army, Doctors without Borders, Red Cross, NPR/PBS or other charities. As far as they are concerned a tithing slip 12 or 24 times a year, and an annual donation to the Boy Scouts, demonstrates their charitable spirit. They give themselves an extra pat on the back if they add a donation for Church Humanitarian Services.

You can’t take it with you.

]]> Comment on Caring for the Poor and the Needy to be Added to the LDS “Three-Fold Mission” by mormongandhi http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/caring-for-the-poor-and-the-needy-to-be-added-to-the-lds-three-fold-mission/#comment-8455 mormongandhi Sat, 12 Dec 2009 16:41:33 +0000 http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/?p=995#comment-8455 This is great! For a long time, I have been interpreting the "three-fold mission" of the LDS church as Proclaiming the Gospel (love), Perfecting the Saints (nonviolence) and Redeeming the Dead (from temporal and spiritual prisons) and in that way I was able to include this command to care for the poor and the needy - but this new emphasis is now timely and welcomed. Check my article about "modern day prophets - advocates of freedom and social justice" (http://mormongandhi.com/2009/07/07/modern-day-prophets-advocates-of-freedom-and-social-justice/ Changing the word "mission" of the Church to the purposes is also fine, I suppose. What is the difference? Are we de-emphasizing the importance on mission? What does that mean for mormon theories of social change, in that case? This is great! For a long time, I have been interpreting the “three-fold mission” of the LDS church as Proclaiming the Gospel (love), Perfecting the Saints (nonviolence) and Redeeming the Dead (from temporal and spiritual prisons) and in that way I was able to include this command to care for the poor and the needy – but this new emphasis is now timely and welcomed. Check my article about “modern day prophets – advocates of freedom and social justice” (http://mormongandhi.com/2009/07/07/modern-day-prophets-advocates-of-freedom-and-social-justice/

Changing the word “mission” of the Church to the purposes is also fine, I suppose. What is the difference? Are we de-emphasizing the importance on mission? What does that mean for mormon theories of social change, in that case?

]]> Comment on About by Gene Pann http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/about/#comment-8452 Gene Pann Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:34:05 +0000 #comment-8452 Hey Derek, Thought you might want to read this article. http://www.alternet.org/sex/144447/hot%2C_steamy_mormons%3A_are_the_latter_day_saints_getting_sexy Enjoy, -Gene. Hey Derek,

Thought you might want to read this article.

http://www.alternet.org/sex/144447/hot%2C_steamy_mormons%3A_are_the_latter_day_saints_getting_sexy

Enjoy,
-Gene.

]]> Comment on Caring for the Poor and the Needy to be Added to the LDS “Three-Fold Mission” by adamf http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/caring-for-the-poor-and-the-needy-to-be-added-to-the-lds-three-fold-mission/#comment-8451 adamf Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:14:11 +0000 http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/?p=995#comment-8451 I appreciate the comparison to the atonement. Not that it is the *same* thing, but rather it is a perfect example of how we should approach serving the "poor and needy." We often turn up our noses at those who may have "brought it on themselves" or those who "haven't worked hard enough." YES, we need to be wise as serpents, so to speak, but that wisdom must also have equal compassion, forgiveness, and charity, etc. I appreciate the comparison to the atonement. Not that it is the *same* thing, but rather it is a perfect example of how we should approach serving the “poor and needy.” We often turn up our noses at those who may have “brought it on themselves” or those who “haven’t worked hard enough.” YES, we need to be wise as serpents, so to speak, but that wisdom must also have equal compassion, forgiveness, and charity, etc.

]]> Comment on Caring for the Poor and the Needy to be Added to the LDS “Three-Fold Mission” by Daniel H. http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/caring-for-the-poor-and-the-needy-to-be-added-to-the-lds-three-fold-mission/#comment-8449 Daniel H. Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:43:16 +0000 http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/?p=995#comment-8449 I agree with this. In priesthood one Sunday one of our most right-wing members sat and said that the government shouldn't be involved in welfare, and turned it into a tirade against the Democratic motions in Congress. The thought occurred to me, though, that if we don't want government in the welfare business, we need to step up, be more Christ-like and take care of those around us, effectively removing the need for the government to step in. Surprisingly, he seemed to agree. And it seems like the church is moving that way, too. I agree with this. In priesthood one Sunday one of our most right-wing members sat and said that the government shouldn’t be involved in welfare, and turned it into a tirade against the Democratic motions in Congress.

The thought occurred to me, though, that if we don’t want government in the welfare business, we need to step up, be more Christ-like and take care of those around us, effectively removing the need for the government to step in. Surprisingly, he seemed to agree.

And it seems like the church is moving that way, too.

]]> Comment on Caring for the Poor and the Needy to be Added to the LDS “Three-Fold Mission” by Alice http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/caring-for-the-poor-and-the-needy-to-be-added-to-the-lds-three-fold-mission/#comment-8448 Alice Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:45:45 +0000 http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/?p=995#comment-8448 This is nice. And yes, while the church itself provides services for the poor, hopefully this will encourage members, as you said, to be more giving in their personal lives. This is nice. And yes, while the church itself provides services for the poor, hopefully this will encourage members, as you said, to be more giving in their personal lives.

]]> Comment on Global Warming and the Poor by Nathan http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/2007/04/16/global-warming-and-the-poor/#comment-8446 Nathan Wed, 09 Dec 2009 07:03:33 +0000 http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/2007/04/16/global-warming-and-the-poor/#comment-8446 You are absolutely retarded. Just because the IPCC says something does not necessarily make it true. Have you ever thought that warmer weather would be better for people in cold countries? More people die each year of extreme cold than extreme heat (by a least a factor of 10). Thus, wouldn't we want the earth to warm to protect these peoples' lives? You are absolutely retarded. Just because the IPCC says something does not necessarily make it true. Have you ever thought that warmer weather would be better for people in cold countries? More people die each year of extreme cold than extreme heat (by a least a factor of 10). Thus, wouldn’t we want the earth to warm to protect these peoples’ lives?

]]> Comment on Separation of Church and State III: Making a State Incognizant of Religion by Derek Staffanson http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/separation-of-church-and-state-iii-making-a-state-incognizant-of-religion/#comment-8444 Derek Staffanson Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:10:51 +0000 http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/?p=786#comment-8444 Jason, I discussed the opinions of these men at a fair bit of length in the first of this series of posts. if you read the papers of Madison, you will find that he initially wanted the Bill of Rights to be enforced on the states and for Congress to have a "veto" on state law to keep the states from infringing on our rights of conscience. He chose not to fight those battles because he soon realized it was a politically impossible proposition. But that does not change the fact that he and Jefferson both fervently believed in keeping religion and state separate and at all levels, including in many of the ways I proposed. I'm familiar with Amars work. I loved <em>The Contitution: A Biography</em>. Yes, the tradition of prayer was part of the Congress in which Madison was apart. That doesn't mean he approved. I've not read anything by him on that specific matter, but since we do have evidence that he disregarded and dismissed the Franklin's suggestion at the Constitutional Convention that prayer be given in the sessions to try to generate a more collaborative and humble atmosphere, I suspect he was no more fond of the prayers in Congress. As to the addition of "So help me God" to the Presidential oath of office, we have no evidence whatsoever that Adams, Madison, or Jefferson included it. We have only hearsay that Washington did. And we know for certain that it was not a regular inclusion until sometime in the 20th century (I believe it was FDR who began the modern trend). Jason, I discussed the opinions of these men at a fair bit of length in the first of this series of posts. if you read the papers of Madison, you will find that he initially wanted the Bill of Rights to be enforced on the states and for Congress to have a “veto” on state law to keep the states from infringing on our rights of conscience. He chose not to fight those battles because he soon realized it was a politically impossible proposition. But that does not change the fact that he and Jefferson both fervently believed in keeping religion and state separate and at all levels, including in many of the ways I proposed.

I’m familiar with Amars work. I loved The Contitution: A Biography.

Yes, the tradition of prayer was part of the Congress in which Madison was apart. That doesn’t mean he approved. I’ve not read anything by him on that specific matter, but since we do have evidence that he disregarded and dismissed the Franklin’s suggestion at the Constitutional Convention that prayer be given in the sessions to try to generate a more collaborative and humble atmosphere, I suspect he was no more fond of the prayers in Congress.

As to the addition of “So help me God” to the Presidential oath of office, we have no evidence whatsoever that Adams, Madison, or Jefferson included it. We have only hearsay that Washington did. And we know for certain that it was not a regular inclusion until sometime in the 20th century (I believe it was FDR who began the modern trend).

]]> Comment on Separation of Church and State III: Making a State Incognizant of Religion by Jason Bentley http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/separation-of-church-and-state-iii-making-a-state-incognizant-of-religion/#comment-8443 Jason Bentley Sat, 05 Dec 2009 01:56:37 +0000 http://aliberalmormon.wordpress.com/?p=786#comment-8443 Though you and I agree on many issues regarding "seperation of church and state" such as gay marriage and with your overall point that the founding fathers were not the hearalding christian defenders the moral majority want us to believe they were, I find it odd you continue to quote the founders to recommend practices none of them (not even Jefferson and Madison) would condone. Religion was a state issue. The first amendment reads something to the effect "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." It simply banned congress from doing anything regarding establishing religion but left the states free reign. This view was even respected Madison and Jefferson. (A good quick read on this is Akhil Amar Bill of Rights the chapter on our first amendment) Although Jefferson and Madison were both purists at the national level, they did not hold such secular views at the state level and you don't mention that when you quote them, thus making it appear that they would also be against the ten commandments in a public building when there is plenty of evidence to support that so long at it was a local government location they wouldn't have cared. Although I'm aware the 14th amendment incorporated the first there is nothing in the first amendment which says that there shouldn't be 10 commandments in local parks. And the especially odd one is the need to stop praying before we open the session of congress. This tradition was done while Madison was in the House of Representatives and the only thing he objected to was the fact that federal dollars paid whomever was chosen to say the prayer. (Madison was stingy with tax payer dollars while he was in congress. If it wasn't expressedly written in the constitution he would not appropriate funds.) So the only objection was financial. You routinely point out God is not mentioned in the Constitution but fail to mention that by default it is. The oath of Presidential office was originally written without the words, "so help me God" , but Washington inserted those words himself and every U.S. President since then has said those exact words. (Incluiding Madison and Jefferson). Though you and I agree on many issues regarding “seperation of church and state” such as gay marriage and with your overall point that the founding fathers were not the hearalding christian defenders the moral majority want us to believe they were, I find it odd you continue to quote the founders to recommend practices none of them (not even Jefferson and Madison) would condone.

Religion was a state issue. The first amendment reads something to the effect “Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion, nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” It simply banned congress from doing anything regarding establishing religion but left the states free reign. This view was even respected Madison and Jefferson. (A good quick read on this is Akhil Amar Bill of Rights the chapter on our first amendment) Although Jefferson and Madison were both purists at the national level, they did not hold such secular views at the state level and you don’t mention that when you quote them, thus making it appear that they would also be against the ten commandments in a public building when there is plenty of evidence to support that so long at it was a local government location they wouldn’t have cared.

Although I’m aware the 14th amendment incorporated the first there is nothing in the first amendment which says that there shouldn’t be 10 commandments in local parks. And the especially odd one is the need to stop praying before we open the session of congress. This tradition was done while Madison was in the House of Representatives and the only thing he objected to was the fact that federal dollars paid whomever was chosen to say the prayer. (Madison was stingy with tax payer dollars while he was in congress. If it wasn’t expressedly written in the constitution he would not appropriate funds.) So the only objection was financial.

You routinely point out God is not mentioned in the Constitution but fail to mention that by default it is. The oath of Presidential office was originally written without the words, “so help me God” , but Washington inserted those words himself and every U.S. President since then has said those exact words. (Incluiding Madison and Jefferson).

]]>